By: Blonde Two
Dear Fellow Walkists
Here is a wild camping conundrum for you. You are an opinionated lot, so I think you will enjoy this one:
Whilst Family von Blonde Zwei (had a Sound of Music moment there!) were up on Dartmoor playing frisbee, drinking gorse tea and not flying kites the other day, I spotted a tent-like shape from the road. Being very nosy and trying not to be officious, I wandered up to take a look.
This is what I found, about three hundred metres from the road and along a clear path. (Okay, so it was exactly 310 metres, I couldn’t resist checking.)
My first thoughts were of the righteous indignation kind … not a ‘lightweight’ tent, visible from the road, middle of the afternoon, well known beauty spot … You get the picture; the hairy, sock and sandal wearing, bog hopping Blonde; who likes to wave her walking stick at people who do not think wild camping is about mud and sleeping in canvas bags.
And then, as I stomped back to my own vehicle, aglow with that righteous indignation; I spotted the campers. They were young, obviously enjoying being outside, were in a designated wild camping zone (cue useful DNPA map http://bit.ly/1OxBDSD) and were actually doing no harm.
It is an interesting question isn’t it. I love to see young people enjoying the outdoors. We need them to enjoy it so that they want to look after it when we are old and doddery (and waving our walking sticks); but is ‘Wild Camping’ the same thing as ‘Camping in the Wild’ and are they both okay?
Yours in Indecision
Blonde Two
Too much to say about this. You’ve sparked me off on a post of my own. I will do a link when it is written.
Here is the link to my post:
https://conradwalks.blogspot.com/b/post-preview?token=hQ69f08BAAA.cUYdplIqz510a9xgs2MJkw.qOdk8IVpVoVV1y0tptrrnA&postId=5785505246483428009&type=POST
What a lovely collection of pictures showing a lifetime outdoors. It is, after all, the being outdoors that matters (she said gazing at Dartmoor through the rain and her kitchen window!)
I doubt you would have been as indignant if it had been a more discreet tent.
In my humble opinion with the National parks facing major funding cuts & violation from fracking (Thankfully not Dartmoor re fracking) the more people that visit & stay on the moors the better.
If they take away everything & leave nothing but a flattened rectangle of grass then regardless of how visible they are from the road.
I personally like to camp out of site to others more for my own privacy, security & weather protection. In my ignorance I never really thought I might be spoiling someones vista.
But the national parks where created so everyone from all walks of life & living standards could enjoy the great outdoors & that should include young couples in a Halfords tent as much as the well heeled in Hilleberg tents.
Love the blog.
Steve.
Thank you and thank you for your comment Steve. We are very lucky on Dartmoor to have the wild camping that we do have. One concern might be the situation that has arisen at Loch Lomond where bans have, out of necessity, been put in place http://www.lochlomond-trossachs.org/visiting/east-loch-lomond-camping-byelaws/menu-id-611.html
The answer, as always, is education. We Blondes strive to do our part towards this and we know that the National Park Rangers do the same.
Loch Lomond is on the West Highland Way and has many proper sites on the eastern shore. Even the Caravan Club site allows backpackers to camp. Dartmoor needs more minimum facility campsites close to the moor and they need to be cheaper than most sites are now. The problem with big tents on the moor is that if one is permitted, masses more can follow. I’d like the Rangers to move them on – gently – until they come backpacking instead.
‘Gently’ is the right word here I think.
We Blondes or our youngsters have used a few of Dartmoor’s more minimum campsites and never had any major problems. Off the top of my head, I can remember: Huccaby Farm, Beardown Farm, Brimpts Farm and Tor Royal.
Hmmmm…not sure on this one. As you said great to see people enjoying the moor with a spot of wild camping but that’s definately a family tent!
The one rule we have when wild camping/bivvying is to look around where we stayed and see no signs that we were there. Not sure a family tent would allow this.
Like you guys I’m divided. Down to the NPA I suppose.
It’s not a difficult question at all…
http://www.dartmoor.gov.uk/visiting/vi-enjoyingdartmoor/camping
Clearly states….
Only lightweight camping equipment should be used and large family frame tents should not be used. Please use a proper campsite if you have a large family frame tent and equipment.
And…..
Please ensure that you pitch your tent discreetly at least 100m from a road and so that you are not visible from the roadside or in sight of residential properties.
Simple really, needs nipping in the bud before it becomes a bigger problem which could lead to further restrictions as recently seen in other NP’s and LDP’s
You could well be right Simon. What would you have done in the circumstances?
A quick phone call to the ranger for that part of the moor, education needs to come from them not some random busy body.
Thank goodness I avoided being a ‘random busy body’!
Sound advice I think .
Greatly enjoy your website. An interesting discussion on tent size, and definitely not as clear cut as Simon states above. What Simon is quoting is guidelines from the dartmoor.gov website (sensible guidelines sure…), however these are not the same as the actual byelaws.
So legally speaking as far as I can see there is actually no tent size restriction on Dartmoor regardless of what the Dartmoor website encourages. Dartmoorbivvy also discusses the impact left by a larger tent, however the larger imprint of a larger tent is not contravening the bylaws as it wouldn’t move or displace any soil, peat or stones (unless it was approaching the scale of a circus tent!). The only question left is whether a ranger could claim that your larger tent was reasonable grounds for causing annoyance to other persons on the access grounds, frankly I feel this byelaw is so subjective that it would depend on the location, ranger, and the campers themselves. The argument of being able to carry a tent in a backpack or not carry a tent is okay if not a bit vague, as a group of five could divide up and carry a five person tent.
My own personal opinion, byelaws aside, is quite live and let live. The couple was over 300m away from a road which is three times the distance they were required to be anyway. If an actual maximum tent dimension was added to the byelaws it would slightly ruin the feeling of being outside the regime and stress of civilisation. Especially if someone was to start turning up at your tent with a tape measure. However, I clearly see the argument against a tent city emerging on Dartmoor as it would raise the same issue. I do feel though that if it can be carried then it can be used, the weight of a tent seems to be the natural limitation as to whether it can be used or not, a seven man tent would have such a hefty outer that no one will be able to carry that far at all so you’ve no worries to see it at the center of Dartmoor. Frankly I’d deem the road a much bigger eyesore and damaging element than the ground tread of a family tent.
Here are the byelaws on camping, damage to land and rangers, if you would like to see my homework.
6 Camping
No person shall knowingly use any vehicle, including a caravan or any structure other than a tent for the purpose of camping on the access land or land set out for the use or parking of vehicles except on any area which may be set apart and indicated by notice as a place where such camping is permitted.
No person shall knowingly erect a tent on the access land for the purpose of camping:
(a) in any area listed in Schedule 2 to these byelaws;
(b)within 100 metres of any public road or in any enclosure.
No person shall camp in a tent on the same site on the access land for more than two consecutive nights, except on any area which may be set apart and indicated by notice as a place where such camping is permitted.
14 Damage to Land
No person on the access land shall without reasonable excuse:
(a) climb any wall or fence on or enclosing the land;
(b) remove or displace any barrier, railing, post or seat, or any part of any erection or ornament, or any implement provided for use in the laying out or maintenance of the access land
No person shall without reasonable excuse remove from or displace on the access land any soil, peat, dung or stones.
21 Rangers
No person shall on the access land:
(a) intentionally obstruct any Ranger or other officer of the Authority in the proper execution of his duties;
(b) intentionally obstruct any person carrying out an act which is necessary to the proper execution of any contract with the Authority;
(c) intentionally obstruct any other person in the proper use of the access land, or behave so as to give reasonable grounds for annoyance to other persons on the access land.
An act necessary to the proper execution of his duty on the access land by a Ranger or other officer of the Authority, or any act which is necessary to the proper execution of any contract with the Authority, shall not be an offence under these byelaws.
Hi Tom. This post was written some time ago and since then we have seen a couple more inappropriately pitched larger tents on Dartmoor and read the bye laws through a few times. The rangers are keen to educate and take a friendly but firm approach. We have some lovely campsites on Dartmoor, which are more than suited to larger tents. If we think of backpack camping instead of wild camping the picture becomes clearer.